The Posies Interview

There are not many times when you get the chance to interview one of your favorite bands but I recently had that opportunity.  The following is probably less of an interview and more of a fan just having a conversation with a musician that he admires.  Take it as you will, I was just happy to get the chance to talk to one of the two front men for Seattle’s own The Posies.

JJ:
So Ken you’ve had a tough day?

KS:  Yeah it’s been kind of an intense day for some reason.  I’m not sure why exactly.  It’s a combination of factors.  We had a bumpy ride from Norway that took all day and all night and all day on the bus.  I mean you know life is not that hard, but –

JJ:
Bumpy rides don’t help.

KS:
For some reason today it seems harder. I probably just have a little bit of anticipation about our record coming out next week.  You know for a band like us there are no guarantees; I mean we’re not a household name by any means and we’re not completely unknown by any means. And you know there’s great pluses about our situation and great challenges about my situation and life in general – I mean being a musician specific and I’ve also been working very hard lately.

JJ:
You’re touring now with R.E.M.

KS:
I’m touring with R.E.M. and every moment that I’m not applying to the show, which is basically every moment that I’m not sleeping or playing the show or doing sound check, I’m applying to this record and this band trying to do everything we can do to make this record as successful as it can be.  Which is not going to be a sure thing. I’m just starting to get sort of an idea of how much work it’s going to take to make this record even under-perform well.

JJ:
I’ve got to tell you I’m a big, big Posies fan.  I’m 30 now and I’ve been a fan since I was about 17.  So I kind of grew up with the Posies.

KS:
Brilliant.

JJ:
My friend Ben introduced me to Dear 23, and from then on it’s been looking forward to each new album, and when I was on your web site and saw that you had a new album coming out all of a sudden it’s like Christmas.

KS:
All right! (laughs)

JJ:
So I’m hoping that there are a lot of other Posies fans like me that are just as excited about this release, so it can over-perform your expectations.

KS:
That would be a great scenario.  And I know that there are fans out there.  I also know that people move on to other things, but at the same time I also know that it’s a possibility to get new fans.  It’s a strange thing like I’m not really sure, well okay let’s turn this whole thing around.  You’ve heard the record?

JJ:
I actually haven’t.  I was supposed to get my copy this week and it hasn’t shown up yet.  I’ve been dying to listen to it.  So I’m anxiously awaiting its arrival.

KS:
I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on it.  I can’t figure out what’s going on.  Like one minute we get a 10 out of 10 review in the main newspaper in Oslo, Norway.  And the next minute a retail guy in London says that the buyer for the record chain hates the record and won’t even stock it.  So things are just weird.  I don’t know what’s going on.  I wish I could say, and the thing is you know we can’t force people to like a record. We’ve seemed to do pretty well with critics all along.  But in this case like we’ve gotten reaction of every flavor; which I guess is interesting.  But as far as trying to build, from an artistic point of view, reviews don’t matter.  Reviews are just whatever and people will react all different ways.  When you’re trying to think about things from a marketing point of view, which I don’t really have a background in marketing.  I’m perhaps not savvy that way.  But it’s really hard to figure out how this is all going to end, as far as a marketing campaign.  Like there’s so many different views on the record and I don’t know what wind’s going to prevail.

JJ:
How do you feel about the record, compared to some of the others you’ve done?

KS:
I really think it’s great.  The way it emerged really turned out far better than I was expecting and considering the way we did it I think it was a great way to do a record.  You know like writing and performing in a very quick fashion creating this music together as a four-piece band and recording it very much live in a studio, all be it we augmented it a lot from that point, although basically everything was pretty much a live take with things added on top of it.  And then I think lyrically it’s more interesting to me than other things we’ve done.  Although it’s so different I could see if you’re really attached to what we’ve done before you might find this too different.  Then again I think a lot of it sounds kind of like us.

JJ:
I’ve never felt like, from one album to the next, that you guys have ever had a stagnant or repetitive quality.  I mean you’ve always changed things up on each album.

KS:
Well if you like that sort of thing then I think that you’ll like this record.  You’ll go like oh yeah like I can see, it’s true to what they are.

JJ:
You know there’s elements to each of your albums, they all sound like Posies albums to me, but I’ve never felt that you guys have kind of picked one sound and plowed forward with just that.  You guys always seem to get labeled as power pop and I guess it’s valid to an extent, but you  guys really do a lot of different stuff within that.

KS:
I was having the same conversation in an interview yesterday in fact saying like you said, they asked well what do you think of that term.  And I said well I think as far as a description of what we are doing I think that it’s kind of limited. I think we try to make our music as diverse and interesting without being contrived about it.  I mean there’s some things that we just probably wouldn’t be that good at.  But you know diversifying our approach to things while remaining true to ourselves.  I think we have appeal of fans of just plain old music.

JJ:
Well everybody wants to compartmentalize things and try and create a tidy little category for everything.  But I think if someone just gives your music a chance and gets to like it, it doesn’t really matter what the description is.

KS:
Yeah.  And I know that I’m not like most people, but I think that most people could easily think like me, I’m not seeing something that’s out there that other people don’t see.  I mean everybody has a chance to browse through record stores and whatever. I mean I get introduced to stuff in all different ways.  But I like music from all periods of time and all areas of the world and I just figure that most people are like me – if something’s interesting and good whether it’s you know Buck Owens or The White Stripes or whatever then it’s just good music.

JJ:
Exactly.  It doesn’t really matter if you like county, like rock, or whatever, if you hear something good it should have a universal appeal just to your audible senses I guess.

KS:
Yeah, yeah.  I mean what was the thing where Brian Wilson was talking about his earliest musical awakenings and he asked his mom I think or his grandmother or something what’s music.  Like what does that word mean?  And the answer was music is human made sounds that are pleasing to the ear. That’s the entire definition.  Which really is true.  It could be so many different things.  And we go into analysis and like there’s reviews and kind of critical dissection of music in magazines, which is an interesting dimension.  You know we all read them.  We all read reviews of records sort of expecting to see what we already think we know.  Like I’m sure this guy’s bullshit and I want someone to say that that’s bullshit, or I’m pretty sure this is going to be great and I just want someone to agree with me.

JJ:
Like getting verification before you go spend the money.

KS:
In a way yeah.

JJ:
To some extent.

KS:
To some extent yeah.  Even then there have been records that I like that have not been received well critically.  I’m trying to think of a contemporary one that would be the case.  But I don’t know.  It’s funny, the analysis side of it is kind of a funny thing because it’s imposing the definition of what’s pleasant to the ear, one person’s definition of it, on you know it’s sort of making that, it’s writing that into law a little bit.

JJ:
Well like the fact that I’m going to be reviewing the album for our site and I’m sure the review I’ll write would be different from someone who just got it assigned randomly and wasn’t a fan of the Posies.  I ‘m sure I have a certain degree of bias.  Your sound is more likely to be pleasing to me, rather than someone who’s never heard of The Posies.

KS:
Potentially yeah, but I will say this right here, it’s produced far from universal reactions.  It’s produced incredibly positive, incredibly indifferent, incredibly negative reactions from all kinds of people; which just leads me to conclude that it is something with a very strong personality because it’s not bent into shape to accommodate current tastes by any means.  You know the fact that all of us, well three quarters of us in the band are in our mid-30’s means that we’re looking at music from a slightly different perspective than someone who’s 15 years younger.  But what that means is we’re totally aware of what’s going on in music right now but maybe sort of aware of the fact that also it would be silly to kind of force our way into a trend that’s current.  Like that would be really untrue and contrived you know.  I think it would be easy for someone to say wow this band’s been around for almost 20 years, they really can’t be that hip; they’re like old guys.  Especially when you have a band getting back together and making a record after awhile like it sort of seems, well do they still exist in the world they left behind?

JJ:
Or have they progressed?

KS:
Or have they progressed.  Or what’s their motivation for doing this.  And that’s a key question.

JJ:
What is your motivation?  What finally got you guys back to making another studio record together?

KS:
It finally seemed like it would be fun, and making music is something that should be fun.  Fun is a funny word.  That’s not really the right word, but rewarding from a growth and creative point of view.  And for me when I’m learning something, even if it’s challenging and frustrating and difficult- like when I was first learning to play guitar when I was a kid or trying to learn French as of late – it may be frustrating at times, but when you make a little bit of progress and you have a little break though it’s rewarding.  So playing guitar for me is fun or playing piano is fun now because I went through the hard work of learning it, which though I can’t say was fun at the time, getting through it was fun.

JJ:
So the hard work of maybe you and John’s relationship was getting through whatever trials you guys had together and now you get to come back and maybe just do things on a different level?  Is that fair to say?

KS:
Well it’s certainly with a different mindset.

JJ:
Different dynamic?

KS:
Different dynamic is a good word, that’s a good way of putting it.

JJ:
Is it your friendship, I mean at the core you guys have been friends for a long time.

KS:
Yeah more than twenty years.

JJ:
So at the core whatever frustrations you might have with one another, it seems like it would be really fun to make something really great with someone that you’re friends with.

KS:
Yeah.  I mean when you’ve had a history that’s so long, I’ve had a history with John that’s so long.  You know we’ve been through so many different things together.  We really did grow up together.  I met him when he was recruited into a band I was in when I was 14.  I was a high school student and he was a junior high school student and we lived in the same small town.  And we did a lot of musical things together in high school and then our band, this band the Posies started to take shape when I was starting college and he was finishing up high school.  And that’s a long time ago.  I graduated high school in 1986.  So 1987 is when we started working on this together and that’s 18 years ago.  That’s a long time in any part of your life, you know especially when you’re younger that’s a bigger chunk of your life

JJ:
When I saw you do some of your last shows at the Crocodile and Bumbershoot, and then I saw you just a couple years later just you and John doing acoustic stuff down at The Knitting Factory in Hollywood, it always seemed like there was some reluctance to end that.

KS:
Well you hate to lose a friend; and that’s really the thing.  We started doing something when we were kids and we just kept doing it.  And I wasn’t yet 30 when we sort of broke things off, as far as really working on things.  And we just, our friendship was getting creamed by the fact that we were working really hard and sort of working against each other in a way.  Like we each had our own idea about how things should go and I think we each tried to, you know we really were just not very good at compromising, working together, communicating.  And it wouldn’t have mattered if it was John or not, if it was me and anybody.  And I’ve just gotten better people skills working for other bands and just being an adult.  You know I’m married to a really great woman and we have a baby and I wouldn’t have been able to pull that off 4 years ago.  I would have messed up just about anything that came my way.  So I think John and I are exceptional cases.  We each got through a lot; we each got rid of a lot of garbage that we kind of grew up with.  It just happened to be that probably the reason we came together is because we had so much in common in terms of garbage, plus a genuine affinity and friendship, each being sort of unhappy insecure guys was probably something we bonded over.  It’s kind of sort of mutual self-defense.  But that was only a good model for so long.  And then I feel that we’re sort of good people, you know like we’re a lot more grown up and we’re a lot more aware of life in general and that’s why we can go back and function together, whereas before I probably was pretty difficult and not a very mature person to deal with.

JJ:
I definitely get that, as you get older you start to give more and you don’t dig your heels in maybe as much and be so stubborn.

KS:
Yeah there’s a great confidence that is behind the act of surrender.  And so if you can compromise and give on an issue and know that it isn’t corrupting you or whatever or that you don’t have to get your way all the time, it may make your life better.  And there are very difficult uncompromising people out there that are considered great artists.  And I think in pursuit of your artistic vision, it’s an interesting thing because I mean collaboration is such a big part of the artistic vision.  And you hear about some film director who is absolutely uncompromising in his vision.  And I would guess that they just know what they want; but they still collaborate.  And I’m sure there’s still give and take with the people they really trust, like a film director that really is considered uncompromising and difficult, probably has a cinematographer that they work with that they really like and they agree on a lot of things and they work together.  And when the cinematographer says your idea is whack and I’m going to try this then he probably says okay.  So just being an adult, and being an adult sounds boring but I know that great art has been made by adults and that also great wisdom comes in growing.

JJ:
Well I read that you played with Neil Young last year.  I mean there’s an example of somebody who’s still making great art at his age.

KS:
60 this year.

JJ:
What did you play with him for?  What was that?

KS:
Well he’s jammed with R.E.M. on a few occasions.  In this case he jammed with us during the Vote for Change tour.  He came on stage and played lead guitar in one of our songs, which was an amazing experience.  Man I was playing base on that particular song and was standing about a foot away from him you know.

JJ:
The guy’s amazing.

KS:
Yeah.  Yeah it was just, that was a pretty incredible experience.  We’ve had a couple of other similar things where he jammed on a couple of songs with us and we’ve backed him up for a couple songs at another show and things like that.  So he’s one of my role models, that I remind myself of when I’m working I think of someone like that who you know is not a sex symbol and he’s grown, he’s triumphed and failed and he’s just been himself.  And he’s beloved despite his faults.  You know and even like getting horrible reviews for some records and stuff like that hasn’t deterred him from just doing what he does.  And he’s always doing what comes naturally to him.  You know that’s great.  I think of him as pretty close to the kind of person that I want to be.  I mean not in the details, but in the general approach.

JJ:
As far as your albums, is there one to you that kind of sticks out as a favorite of yours or maybe just the quintessential Poises album – the one that you would tell a new listener here’s where you should start?

KS:
Well I would probably direct people to Amazing Disgrace, which would be a controversial move I suppose.  But I think that shows us in the light that I think is our best light.  I think it’s the most interesting thing we’ve done.  But still I mean most people would probably, more people would probably say that Amazing Disgrace, or that Frosting On The Beater is the best thing we’ve done.

JJ:
Do you have anything that you would call a guilty pleasure album?

KS:
Well I always come back to the Bee Gees as more than a guilty pleasure. I mean like I think you know unless you’re a real music nerd you know the Bee Gees bring to mind like their you know disco era stuff.  And for some people that’s not cool, but I happen to like all that era music.  You know they’re pretty damn good.  Some of them are kind of corny, but I always think like they’re total heroes.  And somebody asked me if there was anybody you could work with and I said I would work with Barry Gibb.  Out of anybody in the world I could do something with it’d be him.  The other thing that people scratch their heads about and think that I’m just doing it to be silly or doing it too be ironic or doing it to be showing off or whatever, is the band Slipknot.

JJ:
Really?

KS:
Yeah.  I actually, a friend of mine, really great guy named Nelson works at Road Runner Records so he is always sending me all kinds of metal.  I never had a heavy phase like many kids have.  So I kind of went backwards and I got into you know King Diamond and Merciful Fate, just some various heavy metal, speed metal things.  And I really liked the Slipknot record – the first one when it came out.  And I have since then followed through with the next two.  I think I have three in total, plus their live DVD.  Anyway I think like on record they’re a really amazing band.  They sound to me – I’m a very big fan of Devo and they sound like if you ran Devo through a very intense distortion box, to me, on record.  Live, I saw them open for Metallica and I thought they were just kind of stupid, but I think the live DVD I have is really good.  I think they’re really amazing.  And so when I say oh I really like them people are like shut-up.  People have ideas about music before they hear it.  And that music is categorized as like okay well that’s music for kids, and you can’t like that because it’s after your time.  Like why can’t I like it?  I like it.  I just like it.  I think it’s a cool record.  What can you do?

JJ:
Yeah, what can you do?

KS:
If it’s love, it’s love.

JJ:
Well Ken again I really appreciate you taking the time, it’s been a lot of fun just to get the chance to talk to you.  I’m looking forward to seeing you guys when you come to L.A.  I wish you guys the best of luck on this album.

KS:
I don’t know if a lot of people are going to buy the record, and that sort of matters and sort of doesn’t, you know.  Like you can’t make it matter too much cause if you’re disappointed you’re just going to be unhappy.  I love it.  I’m happy we made it the way we made it and what it is, and I wouldn’t change a thing.  So, what else can I do?

JJ:
Hopefully we get a few more Posies albums down the road as well.  I’m excited that you guys are back together making music again.  And I just hope everything goes well on it.

KS:
Thank you so much.